In this episode of the Animalweb Podcast, Helen Stock is joined by Andrew Stennett, founder of Grove House Stables and I-Pegasus CIC, and British Horse Society Generalist Trustee for Approved Centres, to explore the life-changing role horses can play in education, mental health and community wellbeing.
Andrew reflects on more than 40 years in the equestrian industry, beginning with one horse, one pony and a very muddy field before developing Grove House Stables into an award-winning riding centre.
Drawing on his own experiences of dyslexia, dyspraxia, bullying and feeling misunderstood at school, Andrew explains how horses gave him confidence, direction and somewhere he could thrive.
But his story is about far more than overcoming personal challenges.
Andrew shares how his experiences inspired him to create opportunities for young people who struggle within mainstream education, including those experiencing poor mental health, exclusion and a loss of confidence in the education system.
Through I-Pegasus CIC and programmes such as Changing Lives Through Horses, Andrew has seen first-hand how spending time with horses can help people build resilience, develop practical skills and begin to believe in themselves again.
Helen and Andrew also discuss the mounting pressures facing riding schools, livery yards and equestrian centres. From rising costs and limited access to land to extreme weather, staffing pressures and the challenge of keeping horses and businesses sustainable, many centres are being asked to deliver more while managing increasingly difficult circumstances.
Andrew argues that riding schools should be recognised not only as equestrian businesses but as equine health and wellbeing centres that contribute considerable social and economic value to their local communities.
Throughout the episode, you’ll discover:
• How Andrew established a riding school with one horse, one pony and a muddy field
• Why his experiences of dyslexia and dyspraxia shaped his approach to horses and education
• How horses can support confidence, resilience and personal development
• Why some young people thrive in equine and outdoor learning environments
• How I-Pegasus CIC helps provide greater access to horses
• The pressures currently facing riding schools, livery yards and equestrian centres
• Why land availability, rising costs and climate change are becoming major concerns
• The importance of investing in yourself and asking others for help
• Why riding centres should be recognised for their wider community value
• What the equestrian industry can achieve by working together and sharing ideas
Most importantly, you’ll hear why Andrew believes access to horses must be protected for future generations and why equestrian centres have such an important part to play within their communities.
Whether you own or manage a riding school, run a livery yard, work within the equestrian industry or have experienced the difference horses can make to someone’s life, this episode offers an honest, uplifting and thought-provoking conversation about resilience, opportunity and the future of equestrian centres.
Listen now and discover why a riding school can be so much more than a place where people learn to ride.
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Transcription
Here is a transcription of the podcast. (Please note this is an automated transcription, so we apologise for any errors from the original podcast.)
Hello and welcome to another episode of the Animalweb podcast. Today I’m thrilled to be joined by Andrew Stennett and we are going to have wonderful chat about livery yards, riding schools and all the wonderful things within the industry I’m really pleased to introduce Andrew. He’s been in the industry many years and I would just like to welcome you onto the podcast, Andrew. Hello.Hi. Thank you, Helen. I think that’s a nice intro. Many years, yeah, sometimes it feels like many years. It’s actually been, I worked out the other day, we’ve had the school for 40 years, which is pretty amazing. Started with one horse and one pony and a very muddy field. Actually been teaching. 46 years. So I mean, it’s, it’s a little bit worrying when you work that out. I mean, the first few years of teaching was, hey, maybe not everything you want to say about teaching. When I was 14 and 15, thinking, yeah, I knew everything in the horse world, and I could teach anybody to ride. I look back at that, Andrew, and think, maybe not. So we learn. horses are great levellers. So yeah, I’m really delighted to speak to you Helen because I’m really passionate about what we do here and the opportunities that we should say where here is Grove House Stables where we’re about Grove House Stables and I-Pegasus CIC are based at Grove House Farm Nottinghamshire which was 40 years ago was the family farm was a dairy farm and then after my grandparents came out to dairy I won some money in a business competition and I came back to the farm to set up a riding school while I decided how I would get out of the horse industry because I wasn’t getting where I wanted to go into it. So going back onto that journey. So the farm at that time was very similar to what we’re looking at where equine and equestrian businesses are struggling and the rural businesses are struggling. Because the demands on land, on resources, on people and how we get the benefit of our livestock. was changing rapidly and small dairy herds like my grandparents dairy herd were no longer economic in European Union. So my father became an international cattleman breeding the beef cattle brought with us Belgian blues into the country. Those are the big muscled cattle but I’m not a cattle person and though I showed cattle because when I was 12, I wasn’t very big and very tall and a small boy leading three quarters of a ton Belgian blue makes it look bigger and can be a bit hairy at times. So maybe cattle weren’t for me, but the horses were and I was a little bit distracted. I can remember looking at Newark show, leading cattle around the ring and watching the showjumping in the next ring. and actually missing the point when the judge was actually going to call us in. I wasn’t very popular at that point. Fortunately, we sort of rescued it because I was only leading one of the heifers. So it was okay. It was a turning point that my heart was not with cattle, but was with horses. So basically, I left school at 16. I am dyslexic and dyspraxic and neurodiverse. But in those days, dyslexia wasn’t really known a lot about. mean, I was looked at as a 11 year old lad. And basically the educational psychologist said to my mum, who is an ex-PE teacher, said, your middle class parents, which really showed how couldn’t pitch anything because we were quite poor farmers. And you want you want to know if you’re child, let him sit in the corner and eat puddings. Which I was sitting in my grandma’s front room and she was an amazing cook. And yeah, puddings were great. But it was a really patronizing thing. Because because to anybody that could see that there was no doubt about my intelligence or ability to hold a conversation and liaise with people. But what there was that I could not remember my time tables. I could not do sequences. couldn’t tie my shoelaces until I was nine or 10. Yeah, took me a long time, much to my sport loving parents. Took me a long time to be able to. kick a football or play a reasonable game of tennis or anything like that. However, horses came along and my first attempt was not very successful. My grandfather was in the war, was in the blues and royals and passionate into horses. My aunt rode and My grandfather had a pony competing in the highlighted days of when David Broom was, he would showjumping ponies, etc. and all that sort of history of the legacy of them. However, he was a very good teacher if you were talented, if you were a bit like me that wasn’t very talented, he didn’t have a lot of patience. He was a kind man, but he didn’t have a lot of patience for, you know, so. And the first pony we got was actually a rescue pony from Brunsby, which are Brunsby horses, which I’m a passionate supporter of. Despite my first encounter with them, which was a one-eyed pony called Mrs Nelson, who was fine to be led. on the side to have a good eye, but on the side where a bad eye, obviously she was not traffic proof at all. Hence at the age of seven, I ended up into the ditch outside the farmhouse in the loading net loss and gave up six months because, yeah. So then I then became a national champion in showing cavies, which are, if anybody knows what cavies are, they are guinea pigs. And my grandfather was a showman of cattle and sheep and horses and dogs, and also a world-class judge of cavies. And so I had the second best flock of cavies in the country. But unfortunately, you can’t showjump cavies and can make them sit down and you can groom them and such like but there’s not much else you can do with them other than they squeak a bit and you know so I’m afraid when I got to about 10 or 11 I thought I want to have another try at this riding thing so sensible thing happened and grandfather for my first pony bought me a Welsh Mountain pony that had been an experence Philip Tuck pony so so Nervous check out on the guinea pigs. Yes, it was. And Pony was a cracking pony for somebody who could ride. But somebody who couldn’t ride, who was very nervous and quite small and quite quiet, was not alone. So I used to have to ride my pony around for two hours at a time in a track in the field. Because if I sat out of the track, the pony would run off with me. So I used to just ride, trot around and round and round until Tony was exhausted. And then I turned around and trot the other way. And that was all that I did. However, it didn’t put me off. And yeah, I’m very fortunate because both grandparents and parents recognized that everybody has to have something that they shine at. so they were very good. when they bought me my first 13-2 pony which is in the old terms, you know, a 138 pony these days. It’s fantastic pony. With my dyslexia, showjumping courses could be always a little bit tricky, but my pony was so amazing. At the second show that I went, I tried to turn to go to the left, which would have meant I would have been eliminated. it turned and went to the right because it knew where to jump around before. And this pony was amazing. And at that time, so I’m 56 this year. So at that time when I was in, it was 10, 11, that pony was bought for 500 pounds, which was a hell of a lot of money for dairy farmers. It was the same price as a dairy cow at that time. So they made a choice to either have another dairy cow. or to buy and through a pony. That pony was the foundation of the riding school. It helped me set up the riding school and taught hundreds of people to ride and was the most amazing pony. What was the legacy pony’s name? Whiskey. Whiskey. Yeah and so, I love the fact that it took me from my other ponies. I had a very quiet pony in between and that was super, but it wasn’t the pony that sort of get recognized when going to pony club camp or anything like that. This pony was good enough to get me a place to be offered a place on the horse event team. It was so good. mean, unbelievable. I look back now and I thought, crumbs. the times I must have kicked it into the wrong stride and it just did it. And so that pony was amazing. I mean, the early stages of me doing marketing, I can remember when I was 10 writing to Glenfiddick Whiskey and asking whether they would sponsor me, because it was my grandfather’s favorite whiskey, which they sent me a lovely letter back and said, we don’t have any horse equipment, but here is a small bottle of whiskey for your grandfather. So, you know, I think the sort of marketing thing must have always been in the blood. that’s a bit about where is that?
I mean, now you’re on various committees and you’re really working within the industry. You work with the BHS.
Yeah, I’m a trustee of the British Horse Society. I’ve been a member of the British Horse Society since I was 16. I joined as I left school. I left school at 16 and went on to the youth training scheme because I wanted to go to college and my dad said, Andrew, let’s see whether you really like working with horses or let’s, you know, go and work for some wonderful people who are still friends of myself. Sue and Brian De Leon who had a livery yard and also they had a wonderful dressage horse that the late Stephen Clarke rode and that was an amazing horse that would didn’t look like a dressage horse. was a Cleveland Bay Cross that it went on to be a national champion and That inspired my love of dressage. And also, while I was working for Sue, I got the chance to do the pony club area venting team. Had an amazing horse that was an X grade B showjumper that basically took me around and covered up my mistakes and was just amazing. And so I had that wonderful opportunity. I worked really hard, but it really inspired me. And then I was very fortunate to get a place at what was Newark Tech College, the assistant instructor course with A levels that became Brackenhurst College. And so I was very fortunate that I was picked out and interviewed by some amazing instructors there. And yeah, I wasn’t much of the rider because my dyspraxia was so bad, but I was so keen. I was desperate to do it. And so my father sort of said, right, okay, you can go to college. so… stopped earning my living and I went to college, which is in the days when you got a grant and you could go and do that. So the first year was at Newark Tech and the second year it became Brackenhurst. So I was one of two boys on a course of the equine course with AI and A levels. Yeah, I mean, I had a wonderful time at college with great.
It’s amazing to me that, you know, age 11 and teacher says to you, this kid isn’t going to do anything. Let’s just leave him to eat pudding. And you’ve achieved all of this. You’ve gone to college. You’ve got qualifications. You’ve run a business. It’s all shocking. It goes to show how years ago young people were just, you know, people were misunderstood because you’d had so much to give and you’ve given so much and through hard work admittedly, you know, let’s be honest, you work really, really hard, you’ve had to prove yourself time and time again. But if your parents had listened to that teacher, things could have been very different.
I was very fortunate because, at the age of 15, my aunt said, saw an advert in the local Lincoln paper saying about the dyslexia Institute and said, this is Andrew. This is Andrew to a T and I’m I still am quite emotional when I actually think about it because bless her she she paid for me to have my assessment. And I was diagnosed at 15. And so I’d worked my strategies out there. mean, humanities, history, English literature, fantastic. I was great on that and I got really good grades because I’d worked really hard because my life was, I was determined to get my qualification so I could go to college and I was determined to, so I used to come home and ride pony or ponies, ride them through the year which meant in the winter I used to ride the ponies across the road because there was a street light that shone a little corner so I used to trot and I’d go back to trotting my circle and hit under the street light just about and I was sort of determined at that but school was a nightmare for me. I had glasses, I was and not good at football, not interested in football. I rode ponies. I was a farmer’s son at a local comprehensive and I was terribly bullied.
One thing that I think also stands out is that you were always obviously surrounded by animals, you know, from the cattle to horses, guinea pigs. So it goes to show sometimes how much animals lead us where we need to go in life. Absolutely. Empathy. That’s been part of your journey as well.
Yeah. I feel incredibly fortunate to have had family and friends who’ve always supported me and spent incredible amounts of time with me. My tutors at college, Cherry Elvin, who is still a great friend of mine. Spent so long nurturing the talent that I obviously had, but was so sort of passionate, felt that I was always an imposter into the sort of horse world. And then suddenly I realized that people like Cherry and people like I spent two summers working at Stephen Clark’s yard and with the dressage horses and seeing inspirational horses and inspirational teachers suddenly realized that there was an opportunity, I could do something. So that was, I was very fortunate and I’ve had some great support and that’s great horses that I’ve ridden. But the thing for me also, was when I was 15, the careers teacher at the local comprehensive school. You know, you used to get before the days of computers and things, you used to get a sheet of paper that used to go around when you were getting to the sort of end bit of your school time, what do you want to do for a career service? You know, what do you want to do? So I filled in my piece of paper. I said I wanted to either have a riding school or I wanted to be a member of parliament. and it came back, frosted out, bathed them, and it just said, be a farmer like your dad. That, I mean, there was no way that I was going to farm, no way on this earth. And I didn’t let it put me off. I really, really enjoyed going back about, after I’d had my stables for about three or four years, I was actually asked to run a holiday program for my old school. and I ran this holiday program at the end of school term and I went in to present the prizes to these kids and they obviously thought that I would be really positive, which I was positive, as an ex-ex-student saying this is what I’ve achieved, but it was lovely to actually see the careers feature. who had actually gone back to doing what he was actually trained to be, which was a PE teacher, a lovely chap. And I said, it’s a good job I didn’t listen to your guidance, because I wouldn’t have done what I’m doing, and I wouldn’t have believed it, you know. So, but I took to go on forward from that. is the journey with the riding school was originally my idea was to set up a riding school that was purely for dyslexia and dyspraxia and to the sort of alternative education. Now that was like 20 years before its time. I would imagine people didn’t at that point even know. understand it, no. Yeah. Didn’t understand. And to be honest, all through my riding Korea and when I was riding horses for other people. my dyslexia, I hid it. So for me, as an individual, it took me triple the amount of time to learn the feelings of whatever with it, to get my sequencing right, took me a long time to it. And I would hide that. So I will work three times as hard as anybody else to get there. But also be incredibly conscious about how I was being compared to other people and how the horses were going, which was a negative point. Now I look at it because it was like, I put such pressure onto myself. If this 17 year old Andrew came and walked in and said to me, I want to ride dressage, I want to do this, I want to do all these things, I would have said to him, right, okay, but the journey is your journey. It’s not anybody else’s journey. You do not have to compare yourself to anybody and you do not have to meet those standards. The people that believe in you will always believe in you and the people that don’t want to believe in you or don’t want to or the shallow people that don’t do the sport, they’ll always be shallow. And so that progress has meant that I’ve always been passionate about giving people opportunities because I’ve been so fortunate to have so amazing people. Because I do fundamentally believe that actually my journey is not about horses. Horses have been the conduit for me to reach out to other people and to do amazing things and have amazing opportunities. And it’s actually not now about the riding. It’s about the approaches and the journey towards the riding and how we use the opportunities that come down the road from our partnership and engagement with horses, whether it’s on the ground or whether it’s ridden or whether it’s just being able to see them in the distance. So I mean, sort of very passionate about rural relief. that’s why I set up by Pegasus CIC. going forward, explain for our listeners what that is, because some people may not.
So Pegasus CIC is a not for profit company. So that means I don’t own it. It means that it’s a community interest company. Now, I was very, very fortunate that the British Equestrian Federation saw that they needed a riding school representative before the London 2012 project to get participation. They realized that they needed somebody from the industry to encourage people to get involved in a golden opportunity for equine participation. so rightly or wrongly, they chose me and I had an amazing time bringing my fellow riding school proprietors into a room together, talking to each other, which equine industry doesn’t always talk to each other. So it was great to get everybody together, sharing humor and that side, but also it gave me the opportunity to present new ideas to some of my heroes in the riding and riding center industry. And though I felt an imposter at the time. And I’ve always been ahead of the curve and see outside the box. Because if you say when I go into a room, and you looked at my brain, my brain is like going a million miles an hour and seeing this idea, this idea, that idea all the time. And It was great because I could actually put some of my ideas across. I believe the industry started to change from it’s very traditional. very proud. I’m a very proud British person. I’m very proud of our traditional heritage. think we have the world’s best skills with horses. I think we underplay what we’ve done and what we present to the world. think… We should also present ourselves as a heritage brand because we are significant in bringing investment into the country. But like all horse businesses, we sometimes don’t utilize ourselves enough to do the marketing. And I know, Helen, from your marketing point of view, you probably agree that horse industry, they do amazing stuff. but we don’t just don’t shout about it. yeah. Or we spend a lot of time shouting about the things that we maybe already know about. Sometimes I feel like our industry is fantastic at over-complicating things. Yes. And putting up barriers for entry because we say all these things about, have to watch out for this, and you have to be careful of that, and are you a dressage rider? Are you this? Why can’t we just all enjoy horses and love horses? Absolutely. To be wonderful and enjoy them in our own way? long as it’s, know, welfare ed, why can’t we do that? And this,
I completely agree. It baffles me. I just, just, I find that the horses have given me the opportunities that I would have never had if I’d just shown cattle. I mean, I showed Castle both locally, nationally and internationally. But I mean, horses I met, mean, I’ve been very fortunate. We had a pony club center for over 25 years. were the blueprint for that. as going back to the CIC and the British Equestrian Federation, I saw when we got everybody together that basically that the riding school industry was five minutes away from midnight. Yeah. And it frightened me because I’ve always been passionate about opportunity for people and access for people. And I thought, we can’t continue like this because it’s happening like it was the same story that farming was going through. And then we, I’m on the borders of the Nottinghamshire coal fields. So it was the same thing that was going through the coal industry. And I thought, we are dying. We are dying on our feet here. And it’s not because we haven’t got the demand. It’s not because we haven’t got the amazing horses, amazing people. It’s just that we can’t get out of our. reliance to say we’ve done this for years and we’ve come in this traditional approach. It had to change. And so I wrote, well, to cut a long story short, I was in credit, my middle name is Grant. So, and as my first person at the local government business enterprise person said to me, Andrew, we love you. And I said, thank you very much. They said, we love you because you get so involved with everything that comes in the enterprise zone. And they said, you apply for the grants, you become investors and people, you do all these. He said, you really are grant by name and grant by nature. If there’s an opportunity, you are there. But you see, I’d seen it from the side because I couldn’t afford the horses not to be sustainable from the moment go. They had to be sustainable. horse ruins more grazing than a dairy cow and a sheep. you have to look at it from that point of view. And so I saw the CIC was a way that we could get funding into the industry to improve access. So I’m passionate. I’m quite, when I’m convinced that I’ve got it right, and sometimes when I’ve got it wrong, I am a bit stubborn as well. But when I’ve got it, think I’ve got it right, I knew that the CIC Blueprint was the right thing to do. Unfortunately, at that time, I probably didn’t have as much faith in to be able to present it to the the powers that be within the industry and the bigger players in the industry and people didn’t understand it. And it wasn’t taken on board. However, my life changed and personal circumstances and I had a personal journey that I had some personal and mental health journey as well, because of various things that happened and I had to reassess what we were doing and though I ran at that point run a very successful but sure society and a BRS approved riding centre RDA center as well. I was in my complete bubble and I couldn’t stay in that bubble because I suddenly found that the riding school industry was the loneliest place on earth when things start to go wrong. And that’s where my journey with mental health came in. And I was very fortunate because I realized from my experience with dyslexia that I had to shout out what was going on. And my current team, that team at my equestrian centre at that time were amazing. But we’ve run a very traditional, very bubble related riding school. This is what we do. It was, it was great. We did expanded, expanded, expanded, we’ve done so well at franchises and college franchises and done all sorts of things. But we were not really fulfilling my dream, which was about access. then when everything started to implode on a personal and business sense, in the sense of where the direction was, I needed to have a change, I needed to do things. So… I decided that I would make a big change. So I thought, well, you’ve written this blueprint for this CIC. put your money where your mouth is. Let’s do it. So I set it up. The first time I worked through, I didn’t get quite the model that I needed to. But then I started to look into alternative education and people and alternative education and what horse industry could do. And then I thought, right, we need to link in and be able to give the people like the young Andrew at 1415, who was not wanting to go to school because he was being bullied and it didn’t didn’t fit, you know, he was a, I don’t know how you say a square peg in a round hole or vice versa, but I just did not fit, the opportunities. So, yeah, I thought, right, okay. reformulate the riding schools, take commercial riding school, Riverhouse Stables LLP, and set up the CIC. So as always, timing is vital to set up the CIC. And when did I do? I decided that I would give away the family silver. So I decided to put our pony club center and alternative education provision that I’ve been doing a little bit of a pilot on and also writing for the disabled center. I decided to put it all into the CIC. So basically I gave away. a huge part of my business to the CIC. Some of my friends in the horse industry thought I’d gone mad. Some people admired it. Some people said, tell us how you did it, Andrew, because we want to copy it. And so when was this? Timing was amazing. The timing was just before the pandemic and COVID. So literally, just as we did this, we went into lockdown. So we just set it up. We just got our first people going through. Now, having been in the farming industry, I knew that when… circumstances change, like weather. hot weather, rainy winters, snow, foot and mouth, BSE, which took our farming business out both times, and September 11th, which also took our farming business out as well. But that’s another story. When those factors all come to it, and I got an inkling that COVID was going to be like that, plus strangles. plus the worst crisis that you could ever have. And I got an inkling. I was very fortunate because a family member was involved in some of the projects that was preparing for the eventualities and said to me, I can’t tell you anything, but I wouldn’t bother doing your Riding School Day program. And And I said, okay. So, yeah, we managed to stay open because we were providing essential education for individuals. But it also told me how important what we were doing was. Yeah, mean, I have to say it makes me emotional now to think back when we were able to give the opportunity for people just to actually see and walk past the yard and the horses to see when you have a parent saying, can they just come and walk past the field? Because my child is severe mental health. And since she hasn’t been able to come to the stables, she’s on suicide watch. I mean, it breaks your heart. absolutely breaks your heart. But it shows the power of what we can do and why we need to keep riding centers. open and accessible. You know, I’ve been very fortunate I’ve been able to access even though I came from a farming family that didn’t have a lot of money, but we did have the facilities to be able to keep a hairy pony that used to gallop off with me. We did have that opportunity and I had that link to not everybody has that opportunity. And that’s why we need to reshape and we need to reason why I’m involved as a trustee of the British Horse Society for with special emphasis on approvals and approved centres is we have to reshape how we access and give access to horses because if our horses aren’t relevant to our communities, well, we have no place in them. the horse has to be relevant to the community that we serve. And that’s what I think is about it and serving in that side there.
I think you hit on some big topics there. You know, the first one being anyone who works in this industry or runs a business is a tenacious character by nature. It’s hard work, it’s hard graph. I feel like often the odds are against you and you keep fighting. I feel like the people that are successful in this world are always looking for opportunities, always looking to improve and do better, not just for themselves but for their animals, for their clients and for the world. And the fact that, you know, it’s a topic that hasn’t been talked about enough probably since COVID or any of these sorts of times in our lives when Even if you don’t own a horse, even if you don’t ride, just seeing animals, seeing that connection, connection to nature almost, you know, the world carries on, the horses, our horses didn’t know it was Covid, I think most of them just thought it was a wonderful holiday. It was nice working around in the fields, it was, you know. We had a made, we had amazing video. When you used to do the clapping for the NHS and everybody used to blow horns and things, we videoed our horses because they were all turned out. We literally turned everything out. And when you heard that, it was like the charge of the light brigade. They used to gallop around the field. And so much because, I mean, I’m always somebody that’s trying to get… positive marketing story out. I mean, that got onto the local telly. I mean, it was hilarious. The horses just set off and then it all looked like they were galloping for the NHS, you know. I mean, what do you think? mean, our industry has changed enormously over the last 40 years that you’ve been in it.
What do you think are the biggest challenges facing our riding schools and livery yards at the moment, now, like today? We all have our moments when you’re head in your hands thinking I’ve got no one to talk to, where do turn, what do I do?
Absolutely, 100%. So I think, I mean, I’ve had such amazing opportunities that horses have given me and for the business has given me. And we would talk. So one of my Changing Lives Through Horses participants actually spoke at the equine forum in front of Her Royal Highness The Princess Royal and basically explained what horses meant to him. basically, Princess Anne said, that’s the I don’t need to really say anything more. That’s the benefit of horses and horsemanship. You know, it’s there is, you know, equine intervention, we can name it however we want to name it. And the end is access to horses and we have a responsibility to maintain the the access to horses. Now the challenge that we’ve got and going back to my previous other ambition, which was to go as an MP. And just before I set up the CIC, I got the opportunity to go into politics or stay within the horse industry. But I was passionate with the alternative education and somebody that was heavily involved in politics said to me, Andrew, you’d be good as an MP, but you’ll be better as somebody that putting things into effect because you will get incredibly frustrated not being able to make the difference. And you have a responsibility to make the difference, the vision of IPAC assist and similar organization, Equine Intervention. So the biggest challenge is, is plan grab, but because land is getting more and more expensive, people need somewhere to live, but we also need somewhere to exist. Yeah. I think there’s a difference between living and existing and having the opportunities to just be able to take a step back from the screen that we’re talking on at this moment in time. that side of it. So I think that’s one of the biggest challenge. I think the equestrian industry is where farming was five or six years ago about climate change. The climate emergency is there. We’ve lost eight days this summer already because of the heat situation. We have to join together. We have to look at the welfare of our riders, our horses. and our organizations, because though it might be easy to say, okay, we won’t ride at this temperature, we won’t ride at this temperature, we won’t ride at this temperature, if you’ve lost three days, you’ve still got your team to pay, you’ve still got the horses to feed, you’ve still got your costs, et cetera. I think we don’t sell ourselves as the equestrian businesses. I think we should be which should be called Equine Health and Wellbeing Centres. Because I think if you look at what we impacted the local community in economic and social worth, think British Equestrian Federation did some market research and found the average riding school impacted £275,000 of economic and community worth to the communities that they were in. And that’s the average riding school. As the lady then said to me, Andrew, you’re quite unusual because you’re not the average riding school. So you do all sorts of things. And I said, I’m pleased to be called unusual. I’m pleased to be called different. Yeah. And I think we get this moment in time don’t know our social worth and economic worth. I think we’ve got big decisions to make as well. Fashionate people thinking about. fashion of horses for access. that horses are non-judgmental. And they are a sport that male and female can take part in equal terms, able-bodied, disabled. We don’t shout about that. And if you look at the pictures of the late Queen with her daughter and granddaughter, all on horses. I mean, the only thing I dislike about the picture is that she’s not wearing a hat and she’s wearing a headscarf. I would forgive that. But it just shows that age groups can all take part in an activity together. Not many activities can go across generations like we can. But do we do we do we sell it like that? no, we don’t. We just think of yeah, let’s fall out amongst ourselves rather than let’s get together and do something. I couldn’t agree more. It is those sorts of elements that I feel we need to draw on to make the most of. And I have a question for you here.
Many yard owners are passionate about horses and often spend their time, you know, it’s all about the welfare of the horses and how they keep them much like yourself and that is to be commended. But then we often hear that they do then struggle with the business side of things. And that’s, know, obviously, someone as yourself as you’ve shared with us, with your dyslexia and dyspraxia and other limitations. differences that you have therefore have to deal with the business side of things in your own way and find your own coping mechanisms to get through that. What do you say to the other business owners who are struggling with the business side of things? You your finances and your health and safety and the red tape and insurance. all these topics that fill so many of us with dread. Right, so like I’ve just had a drink of water, I think we need to refresh our views and take opportunity to refresh. And that’s incredibly difficult. I’m just going to have to press the button actually on my machine. Sorry. We have to refresh, we have to engage and see different routes to maximize the opportunities and we have to be prepared to look into new ways of a new modern industry. Keep the best, keep the tradition. build on the tradition, build on belief, build on people, build on our horsepower. It’s easy to say, but it’s hard to do. I can always remember when I went to one of the member bodies first conferences, and I can remember… I just got my riding school license. I got four ponies and one horse. And somebody came on and did a presentation about feeding the riding school horse. And it was very, very much, this is how you feed a riding school horse. And da da da da da. And he touched so much oats and this that and the other. And having fed dairy cows and known the cost and the economy, I sat at the back. worked out that I would make absolutely diddly squat out of riding lessons if I fed my horses like that. My horses looked wonderful but we were used to having really good hay and that side of it so I sat there and I sat and listened and I listened and then I put my hand up and and everybody else was asking questions about the you know the percentage of oats and that sort of thing. Sorry, I hate to ask this, but the economics of this won’t work. I couldn’t feed my ponies like this. And I was looked down on. was felt like the Yorkshire person that counted both sides of the 50p, which at that moment I was embarrassed about, but I’m actually quite proud of now. And then somebody came and somebody came outside and said, I was desperate to ask the same question, but I was too terrified. I would say, conferences that are going through British Equestrian Federation, British Horse Society, AVRS, et cetera, are your opportunity to ask the question. Because if you’re thinking it, somebody else will be asking the question. And my… My first library was owned by a businessman and he gave me two bits of useful advice. First of all, he said, believe in your dream. And I have a favorite film, is Field of Dreams. And he said, believe in your dream. You if you build it, they will come. And it was a little bit, yeah, I’ve got. a muddy corner of a field and a cattle box. That’s all I’ve got. But I set up the livery business there. And he also said, go and ask the best people in the industry. even if you can’t afford to do those things at that time, go and ask them. Be polite. Make sure you set it up so you don’t ring up on a Saturday morning or whatever. Do that. And do you know what? I had so much help from people who took the time and interest because they wanted to help me on that side of it. And I think that’s the scope. I think we also have to be non-judgmental as well. Yes, yeah.
I think that’s three really good bits of advice. And I would also say, adding on to that,
There are lots of businesses and I deal with lots of different businesses, all sorts and small business owners often feel like they have to be a jack of all trades. They have to know everything about everything and you don’t. There are so many places you can ask from accounts to legal, to health and safety and I think that’s the wonderful thing about the internet and dare I say it, even AI. you can go in and say, where can I get this information? I wouldn’t necessarily believe everything you read all the time. You can ask where to get the information and you can say who would know about this? Who is an expert in this? And like with Animalweb, you know, our platform, we encourage questions. We have a host of experts because one or two people do not have all of the answers. We have 30, nearly 40. experts on hand to speak to about anything from like you say, like land management, feeding, bedding, behaviour, vets, specialist vets, all different areas, because there isn’t one person knows everything. You have to ask. Always ask.
I always say because I also run a consultancy business because so many people said to me, What, how are you doing it? What are you doing? What’s your ideas? Why are you coming there? And in my early days at the business, I was very deferential and I would give away my ideas and then suddenly find professional bodies and things would actually run it. And I would very rarely get any acknowledgement that it was my ideas. Two schemes that are running on a national basis now. I gave to their former chief executive. and they ran with it and I never got any credit for it. And it was my program, nearly to, other than they gave it a name, it was my program. However, you can either be bitter or you can learn from that. then, so I would, I always try to share, I always try to support, but I also say, this is what I spend, know, my CIC, I spent a lot of money with people that had the skills. So is it viable? it? Is it crazy? Is it loopy? And so I have an expertise in alternative education using equine and rural businesses. But also I’ve learned that I now have the superpower that I’m not afraid to approach anybody, whether they are government ministers, whether they are politicians. whether they are the top showjumpers, dressage riders, top people at the VHS or the ADRS or the British Equestrian Federation or the RDA and say, what about this? Can we do this? Yeah. And I’m probably that pain in the ass Yorkshireman, but I believe in making that difference because I’m sure that we can make a real, I mean, Where does my inspiration come from?
My inspiration comes from people who made it from, against struggles. So my inspiration is people like Richard Branson, Martin Lewis. My ambition and life is actually become the equine version of Martin Lewis, money saving. Also people like Bear Grylls, but also people, people in the industry, the late Stephen Clarke, amazing coach, some of the amazing people that gave me opportunities there, but also people who can make a difference. And I think you only have to listen to somebody like the patron of the British Horse Society. Her Royal Highness The Princess Royal and listen to her speaking, her knowledge of being an Olympian, a horse person, but also an incredibly passionate person about rural businesses and opportunities, you know. And also, I have to say that my initial faith in having a riding school and having my own business started in the Princess Youth Business Trust where I got a grant which enabled me to put down my first concrete for my stables to convert to hay barn. I went back and got another grant from them which was unheard of and because you got a business a mentor at that point which was amazing and And then I actually went back for a third time and they said, we’re not going to give you another grant, Andrew, but we will give you a loan because we really admire you. But I can remember my business mentor said in my first three months of having my equestrian business, he said, you’ve done something remarkable here. And he said, you’ll never do it again in your business career ever. You made 97 % profit. Wow. And he said, Just remember that you’ll never, never make that again. You’ve just done it exceptionally well. You’ve worked really hard because you’re a one person organization. And so when we celebrated our 30 years anniversary a few years ago, I vote to the Prince of Wales as he was then. the king as he is now, and said, thank you very much. Very few people say thank you to the people that have made the difference. Your organization saw something in me. And also, I have to say my mum’s fruitcake because the business advisor came out and said, that was the best fruitcake I’ve ever had in my life that your mum made. I’m sort of a farming welcome and saw something in the business that 30 years ago and I told him all about what we were doing with alternative education and got fantastic letter back from the King and you know to me we have to acknowledge where we are as an industry and we have to know where our place that we fill and we have to work and support and we have to look after our people. I I think that’s also a thing that I know from working in the riding school industry, but we were for a long time, we were seen as the poor relatives of the competition disciplines. And I love dressage. I am passionate about dressage. And I competed at sort of the local level and had the opportunity when I was training to ride some fantastic advanced horses. I would have loved to have been a rider, but no way, no way at all to get that sort of level. But I always felt the riding school was like, needed when it was needed at that point and then that competition halls, know, and then I think, but now it’s changing. We’re changing because the world’s changed. We can make such a difference into education. We’ve got to be brave enough. We’ve got to support people like myself who aren’t afraid to talk to people in power, the education ministers and that side, local councils. And who aren’t afraid, mean, the number of times I’ve been in rooms and basically told that it’s playing with ponies, which is the one thing that infuriates me beyond ever. We are a cost-effective way of making a difference to young people and also older people that may be going through journeys with mental health. and dementia, etc. We are a cost effective way. Social prescribing has to become part of what we can offer. But we’ve got to be organized and we’ve got to recognize our amazing coaches and centers and the people that look after the horses in the centers. So value people. Yeah. Value the organizations and I mean, but also not afraid to challenge. And I know my colleagues at the BHS always find me that I would always say things that will challenge. I always want to support, but I will always challenge because my job is to challenge because then I can make a difference, whether it’s within our riding centers or the business. Yeah, I mean, I don’t believe that my disabilities are disabilities. I think they’re enablers. And without having dyslexia and dyspraxia, yeah, I might have written a bit better. I might have got a few more nines, or maybe an occasional 10 in my dressage test. But it made me as determined, no. And also, I find it fascinating when you meet people and because. I mean, I was sat on the on a train and going to a BHS trustees meeting and. There was a child opposite me who actually had sort of blend table with this book that he was reading, tapped me, well, would got to tap my computer and his mum was like, my God, I’m so sorry. You know, and I said, not a problem. He’s autistic, isn’t he? And I said, I’m really sorry to be so sort of blunt, know, but he isn’t, she said, how’d you know that? And I said, I know. course, I’m neurodiverse, I can, I can feel that and that’s it. And he’s not being naughty, frustration, you know, he’s, and so we talked about, we actually talked about horses and that side of it and had a really engaging, but it was just like frustration. And I think the same thing. I was, when I was at school, I challenged my frustration into getting out of school and being able to get my goals. I can understand the kids that have come onto my alternative education program that have been excluded, not once, not twice, but three times because they’ve thrown chairs, because the environment has let them down, education has let them down. And when you have a 15 year old lad who comes at front of you and says, I don’t want to be here, I don’t want to be in education, I’m not really interested in horses. but I like being outside. then I say, OK, so, but maybe not in that same language, shall we say, you know, maybe a little bit more colorful. But being a farmer’s son, I’m quite used to a colorful language at times. And I said, OK, so what makes you interested and why don’t you want to be here? Because you have one life, and it’s got to make the best of it and it’s your journey. So he said nobody has kept their promises to me or my sister in education. He’d been in, he was 15 years old, he’d been in secondary school for two months, this entire part of his secondary school because he had been moved from pillar to post and I said right, said I find things difficult. I said, I got frustrated and then I got put in one side and then I’m seen as being disruptive. So I said, right, okay, what do you like doing? First of all, he said sleeping. And I said, well, you know, I’ve got to move on from that, mate. And the second thing he said, I’m really interested in gamekeeping. My uncle’s a gamekeeper. I sometimes go and I’m a beta. And I said, do you shoot? And he said, would you give me a gun? I said, no, do you shoot? And he said, well, my uncle has taught me to shoot. And I said, right, so why don’t you want to a career in being a gamekeeper? I said, I know lots of people in the rural businesses. So this is what you could do. I’ll talk to somebody. I’m not going to do it for you, but I’ll talk to somebody. this is what you do. So anyway, I think he went off to, he stayed with us, he did six, eight months and he became a reasonable rider under sufferance, but a reasonable rider, very good with the horses, amazing, amazing attitude came from sweeping, looking after the horses, confidence grew. think he went into doing more with his uncle with the gamekeeping, went off to college, got a place doing gamekeeping and rural work of it. What was interesting when he said to me was after he came to the end and he was just leaving, he said, you’re the only person that hasn’t lied to me. Everybody else has left me and my sister down. Because, and that’s not the teacher’s fault. It’s a system that is wrong. And that’s why we have to work as a community within what we can do to make a difference. And that’s why we have to come together, forget our arguments about which is more important, showjumping, dressage, know, cross country, and get together and say, what’s more important is the horse world comes together. with learns from farming learns from other rural industries approaches the right people in the right way realizes also that we’ve got to have something on offer to make an offer we’re cheap it’s cheaper keeping somebody in alternative education than it is to go into the criminal justice system because they’ve been kicked out of so many schools It’s cheaper to give somebody some social prescribing to do some writing rather than put them on a course of antidepressants. It’s cheaper. So to me, the message goes to government, we can solve your problems and we’ll save you money. Now, got a Prime Minister. Come on, he must want to save some money somewhere. Well, he’s standing on social care at the moment, isn’t he? Yes, yes. Maybe he needs a letter from Andrew. he needs it. so one of my members of staff said, he said, said, I’m not doing a politics thing here, Andrew, but he said, he said he sounded a bit like you in this, another Andy with sort of passion about getting something done and not being afraid to make decisions said, yeah, well, we’ll see where our.
Right to finish off, I’ve got some quick fire questions. Yeah. I’m going to ask you to try and answer them sharp if you can. Yeah. Yeah. I want to get through them because I think they’ll be really helpful. So the first one, what’s one thing Every yard owner should invest in. What do you think is the one thing everyone should invest in?
Themselves.
What a good answer. I love that. Yeah.
Perfect. Right. What’s the most valuable lesson horses have taught you?
Resilience. Brilliant. What’s one business habit you’ve never compromised on?
Belief in people.
That’s lovely, isn’t it? What gives you hope for the future of the equestrian industry?
So I had a card that was written to me by one of my students to the day. And bear in mind, when they came to us, were, they were completely disengaged from education and in attending education, a lot of mental health issues. And she wrote me a lovely card that said, thank you for thinking about I-Pegasus. It means the world to me, it’s made a difference. You know, she’s got just about 100 % attendance. She’s doing her exams. And yeah, made a real difference. So that’s what keeps me going on to what I’m doing. But it also is my frustration because we could do so much more if we were all together and as a united front. and I believe we can learn so much if we go back to a more connected to nature, connected to our environment and also take what is good of modern technology, modern opportunity and blend it with what is a very traditional and good, beneficial activity.
Brilliant. Thank you. And I think you have some YardWise up in a way because I was looking earlier today at a lot of people who have already bought their tickets and who are coming. And there’s a tremendous amount of people who were there last year. And I think that speaks volumes that they’ve learned something they want to come back, they enjoyed the experience, they had a good time, fantastic connections. And as well, we’ve got new experts and we’re talking about new topics. So I’m really looking forward to September. Yeah,
I think the important thing is that We don’t need to, it has to be a smorgasbord of activities of, people to be able to take what they need. But also sometimes it’s a bit like Nanny McPhee in the film. Sometimes you don’t realize that what you need until you actually have it put in front of you, you need that. And you need to look at things and say, and take two days out of of a busy environment. mean, we weren’t able to attend last year because my yard ops manager was meant to be attending, but then we had a major new business venture coming along and suddenly it was like two weeks behind and she couldn’t attend. But I actually feel that being away from our organizations gives us the opportunity to engage. I’d also say learn from your fellow delegates as well, because we’re all going on a journey. And that journey is exciting, frightening and challenging at times. It’s a bit like riding a cross country course, isn’t it? You know, it absolutely terrifies you, but you still want to be there. And you think halfway around the course, you think you’ve suddenly remembered you’ve still got to breathe because you will not without oxygen. And then you get to that last fence and you think, yeah, that was amazing. I want to it all again.
Well, funnily enough, I was thinking, well, clinging on for dear life, will I make it to the end? And then when you to thinking, I can’t wait to do that again. I think with me, my dreadful geography and my dreadful dyslexia of turning right or left, my mum and my grandmother used to at cross country and one day events and pony club hunter trials, you stand at various points on to those things. So I didn’t turn and go on to the advanced course or the novice course, my mistake. And I can remember the commentator saying that the parents and grandparents of some of these riders were so fit, they’d seen two ladies run from one end of the course to the other. it was so important because I would have gone and jumped the wrong course without that because they have no sense of direction. But hopefully I have a sense of direction where I want with belief with people. So that’s where we go and horses mean the world. But also, I also feel for us as an industry and an environment, we have to really wrap ourselves around everybody within our industry and look after people. Let’s not fall out amongst ourselves. Let’s look forward. Let’s see what let’s be open minded. Let’s also see where the challenges are. And let’s use some of these amazing people that got amazing ideas. So yeah, can we do it? And usually we can. Usually we can.
Brilliant. Thank you so much. I really appreciate you taking the time to talk to me, Andrew and sharing your story with us because I feel it’s an important one to be shared and what you’ve achieved is phenomenal. So thank you ever so much for your time
